Michelle Tubman
Kathleen, welcome to the mindful weight loss podcast. I am happy to have you here.
Kathleen Kelley
Thank you, Michelle. I'm really glad to be here.
Michelle Tubman
And today we are going to talk all about stress management, which in this day and age I think is top of mind for most of us whether we're struggling with weight or not. But before we dive into the good stuff, Kathleen Can you tell us a little bit about yourself and why you came to work with stress management?
Kathleen Kelley
Yeah, I so my name is Kathleen Kelly. And I am a professor of physical therapy at a small university in the Northeast of the United States. And my area of interest has always been neurology. So I started as a therapist way back when treating people with stroke and head injuries. So I've always had a keen interest on neuroanatomy, neuroscience, brain health. And that evolved into becoming a yoga teacher becoming a meditation teacher, and then most recently becoming a life coach. And it just seemed very natural for me to begin coaching people and healthcare, who don't love their jobs. anymore, because they're so stressed out and burned out. I did my certification during COVID. So it was really timely for me to take a step back from my career and look at the bigger picture of what was happening in healthcare. What was happening in my life and then be able to integrate some of the research that I've been reading for many years on, you know, how how do we keep the brain healthy so that it can do its good work and not always feel like it needs a rest or it needs a break or it needs a nap.
Michelle Tubman
You know, it's interesting, I did my coach certification during COVID as well as an emergency physician working on the frontlines of this pandemic. And I think a lot of people looked at me like I was absolutely crazy. But in retrospect, I see it as the thing that actually allowed me to get through the pandemic, with my mental health relatively intact. Anyway. It was it was really something outside of healthcare and outside of the stress of the pandemic, to focus my creative energy on and I think it gave me a little bit of a balance even though it was you know, certainly a burden on my time and, and a little bit of my energy as well. I think, in the balance it really just served a huge purpose of, of keeping my heart in a place where it was constantly fulfilled so that I could go to work in the emergency department and know that there was something more for when I got home. So I think I think a lot of us chose different pathways in healthcare and even not during the pandemic just as we navigated different ways of trying to cope.
Kathleen Kelley
Yeah, for me, I think coaching is filled in a gap as far as my own abilities to see things more objectively. You know, I could be really calm on the on the yoga mat and not bring it with me, right and I could meditate and feel pretty good for a couple hours but by the end of the day, everything you know went to crap. So coaching filled in that next piece where you could really look at okay, how am I contributing to my own demise? How am I contributing to my own stress? Of course, you know, health care was very stressful during the pandemic and teaching on Zoom is not ideal, and it's stressful for everybody. But how am I contributing to that, by the way I'm thinking about it. So coaching added that one extra piece to really give me like a full complement of tools to manage my own mind, manage my own stress. And really, I actually just wrote a blog about like, we don't really manage stress. It's like managing the rain. It's raining. Good for you. You don't manage it, you accept it and decide okay, what will I do? Will I stay in? Will I get an umbrella? Will I get a raincoat? What will I do? We don't manage the circumstances we decide how we're going to respond and decide what tools we might pull out for one situation versus another. And coaching really helped me kind of put that in perspective. Instead of No, I would like I'm a yoga teacher. I'm a meditation teacher. Why am I always so anxious like beating myself up for not having enough tools? I don't do that anymore. I just think okay, this tool didn't work today. What tool could I use instead?
Michelle Tubman
Right, right. But you said a lot of interesting stuff in there. And also even in the beginning when you're introducing yourself. You mentioned stress as being a brain thing, which I think is really interesting because I think most of us when we use that phrase manage stress. What we think about is bath bombs and you know pedicures or going for a walk or you know physically doing physical things with the body. Is that the right way we should be looking at this.
Kathleen Kelley
You know there's the right ways the way that works for you. And the right way is the way that you will do consistently so if in your mind you think the only way to manage stress to take a bath, but I never have time to take a bath, then that's not the right way for you. Like what works for you. What? No, make a list of all the things that in the past have worked for you and then pick one that you have time for right at this moment. And I'm a really firm believer that you won't be able to manage any type of anxiety or stress or overwhelm if you're exhausted and undernourished because the anxiety and the overwhelm is coming from that primitive part of your brain that doesn't need as much sleep and doesn't need as much nutrition. But for you to be able to look at the situation and say okay, I'm going to the emergency department today. Many of the people there are going to have COVID What am I How am I going to manage myself for you to be able to think that way? You need your prefrontal cortex your higher part of your brain on board. And that lady is a diva. She needs the eight hours of sleep. Yes, she is good nutrition. She needs adequate hydration. Right. She needs the all the comforts of home before she's going to give you her best work. So like what's the best way to manage stress? get eight hours of sleep and eat well.
Michelle Tubman
Okay. All right. Well, that's that would be a whole other podcast episode on its own right there. But yeah, if I'm understanding you, what you're saying is that it's not really managing stress that we're doing in that it's more optimizing ourselves to navigate through the stress that is inevitably going to be in our lives.
Kathleen Kelley
Right 100% We want to create a healthy environment for our brains so that we can handle whatever comes our way so that we can widen our ability to be resilient, meaning more, more and more comes at you. And you handle more and more. As opposed to that feeling of more and more is coming at me and I'm handling less and less until I burnout and shut down. Right.
Michelle Tubman
Right. And I like that you mentioned sleep and nutrition as the first part of this because I think if we automatically jumped to the bath bombs and alone time or you know whatever else and without addressing the sleep and nutrition piece first little bit putting the cart before the horse
Kathleen Kelley
Yeah 100% Taking a bath every night doesn't work. If you are sleeping for hours and you know living in my town you could live on pizza.
Michelle Tubman
Oh, I think most of our towels you could live on pizza for sure. Yeah, so
Kathleen Kelley
fast just isn't going to cut it. Your brain will be screaming really for more as are in terms of rest and nutrition and really just asking you to treat it better.
Michelle Tubman
Right right. And I think the reason why most of us will gravitate towards things like baths and walks or you know alone time is because what that does is relaxed the nervous system a little bit. I think that we think it's relaxing the body but it's doing that via relaxing the nervous system. And if the nervous system isn't getting the sleep it needs then those are really broken strategies. Now of course Yeah, I know what listeners are out there thinking and thinking they're they're hearing this and they're saying I don't have time for a bath but I definitely don't have time for more sleep. There's too much on the go. And so I think this is where the whole mindset piece of stress management comes in, though do you have any thoughts on where a person could get started in looking at how stress is affecting their lives and what they want to do about it in terms of getting back to these basics of sleep and nutrition? Yeah,
Kathleen Kelley
I think the first thing is if that's your primary thought, I don't have time for more sleep or my favorite one. I'll sleep when I'm dead. One of my favorites. I would ask you to really look at your to-dos right at your have-tos. And really, really notice what can come off the list. What can be delegated? What can wait and do you have to my kids were little I had a role one sport one activity per semester. They lived around my schedule. And sometimes it was hard sometimes you have to say no. You're not joining Girl Scouts because you need to finish your soccer season. Or no you're not playing lacrosse and soccer. And that was for me just as much as for that. Like I'm teaching them how to create boundaries and how to look at have to or want to, you know, I like to I love to which one do you love to? And really, when we look at our big long lists, there's so many things that can either come off permanently or be delegated. And, you know, for me being in healthcare I am a lot of around a lot of type A people know about you. So when we delegate we sometimes don't like how other people do things. Oh, well you know, that's the second piece. Oh is it done like are the kids home and ssfe? I know you wanted them picked up at this time and you wanted the homework finished and you wanted the shoes put away but are they home? Are they safe? Did that task get taken off your plate? Yeah, okay. Yeah, it's good enough. Good and I think holding a lot of expectations for other people, really is one of the things that creates stress for us. You know, I delegate to you, and I expect you to do it. How I want it done. Now I just created more stress for myself. Yes, yes.
Michelle Tubman
And I think what also adds to our stress collectively, as we're also in this culture, that everything needs to be done right now. Fast, you know, people expect you to respond to texts and emails promptly. They want it done, you know, in very precise ways, and we're all very concerned of of not living up to other people's expectations, which puts so much pressure on us and a lot of that is pressure that we put on ourselves by allowing ourselves to fall into all of those expectations. So I I have set boundaries for myself. To help in this regard. And that I closed down all of my electronics in the early evening. So I don't respond to emails or texts or anything in the evenings because I'm not even checking them. And people in my life know that if they you know, call or text or email me after 7pm then they're just going to have to wait till the next day. And I'll take my weekends off and I put you know, boundaries around that. And in my email I'll even say at the bottom that I will not be responding to emails until Monday. Right and so that that I think helps train people in my life to understand that these are what, what my boundaries are, because what I was finding earlier in the pandemic, when we were having meetings in the hospital all of the time, and all of my friends and family had questions about the Coronavirus that we didn't yet know answers to and I was getting bombarded from all angles. And after a couple of weeks of being nonstop on my phone. I said you know this is not sustainable for me and I immediately just put these boundaries in place. And I think that was another thing that that helped with my stress levels throughout the pandemic as well was just understanding how all of the inputs from the world were affecting my my nervous system and my stress levels and that it was okay for me to put boundaries around that in order to take care of myself. And I think
Kathleen Kelley
I think that's one of the hardest things for like career women who also have families is putting a boundary saying no. And I think there's so many things about boundaries that we just don't understand one about boundaries for you. It's not for anybody else. It's for you. And it's not a thick brick immovable wall. It's mobile. You can change it whenever you want. And sometimes when you put up a boundary like for you, you set a time boundary on answering emails and texts, the people outside the boundary. So the person who only texts that 11 Because that's what's convenient for them. Sometimes that person is angry. That's 100% normal and it's not your fault. You didn't do anything wrong. So I've had when I have talks with therapists about setting boundaries on their schedule with patients, right because now we have apps we have emails so patients are demanding more and more of their time outside of the therapeutic day. The patients get angry. They're upset, they're mad. Yes, because that's the normal response for a boundary and that's not on you. You didn't do anything wrong, and you don't have to manage their anchor and eventually people get over it. You know, took my teenager until she was about 19 to get over the boundaries. People can start to respect to and you never know what you might be teaching someone like you put a boundary as at 7pm Maybe the people in your life who were texting you and emailing you at eight, nine and 10 thought hmm, could I do that? That's kind of cool. Like you never know what you might be putting out in the world when you take care of you
Michelle Tubman
know, so true and I actually never thought of it that way. But that that's actually really valuable message is that when you are enforcing boundaries in your life, how that affects people in a positive way in terms of how that encourages them to look at their own life and where maybe they need to institute some boundaries as well. And another example of this, which I think is important is a while back, somebody asked me what I thought the number one self care thing I could do for myself was and she had this list of prompts to kind of get me to the answer. And what I came up with was sleep for me because if there is anything that goes in my life, sleep is the thing that affects me the most. So I mean if I have a crappy day of eating Yes, I mean I feel a little bloated and sluggish and off. But if I have less than my eight hours of sleep, I like my day is is done for like I can just expect that I'm not going to be productive in a good mood or anything. And in fact, if I'm not sleeping well then I'm more likely to have a bad eating day as well. So for for me in my life. Sleep is actually the the foundation for everything else to happen the way I want it to in my life. And so sleep is now the thing that I prioritize so the first thing that I plan when I wake up in the morning is you know looking at when I'm gonna go to bed and fitting in my day around that and I'm an early riser, I get up, I get up at 530 on days that I don't have evening shifts in the emergency department, and my husband likes to get get up a fair bit later. So we have different bed times. And this was a source of frustration in our marriage, you know, for a long time until I just sat him down and said Listen, like this is when I need to go to bed and this is when I'm gonna go to bed. I'm sorry. And you know, we just found out found a way through that and where we now have a rhythm where everything works. Works out, you know, just fine. But for a number of years in my marriage, I was staying up late, you know, just to be able to go to bed with him and then my sleep was suffering because of that and then everything else downstream started suffering as well. And so just even making that one change in my marriage, and the subsequent effect it had on my sleep had a huge impact on my overall stress levels. Moving forward from that, for sure. Well,
Kathleen Kelley
it definitely changes your ability to handle whatever comes your way the next day. If you've had your proper night's sleep, it gives your brain set your brain up for success as opposed to lack of sleep, which really sets your brain up for failure. And it's really a myth I'll catch up on my sleep on the weekend. It's a myth are your brain needs that rest every single night so many things are happening in your sleep that you take for granted and don't even know about consolidation have memories of cleaning out of the brain the lymphatic system of the brain is working in the evenings. And you mentioned when you have a poor night's sleep you're more likely to have a poor day of nutrition the next day, which is it's not you're not imagining that a poor night's sleep changes the hormonal profile for the whole next day. So you are more likely to crave something salty and crunchy that tends to not be best on the nutrition side, right? Yeah, yeah. So I think really sleep is the priority for humans in general, because we have nothing else that can replace or take the place of or mimic sleep. Right. If a bath doesn't work for you, you could try a walk. If meditation doesn't work for you. You could try yoga. If walking doesn't work for you, you could try running, but there's nothing that substitutes for a good night's
Michelle Tubman
sleep. Right, right. And so once you are able to optimize your sleep and your nutrition, what are the next steps, right because I like this, the sleep and the nutrition is certainly going to help but there's still going to be stressed fires you know to put out as as we go through our days. So what are next steps in terms of managing stress?
Kathleen Kelley
I think being really conscious of not falling into the trap of I'm multitasking. We all have our phone it's our you know fist appendage and we're all walking and staring at our phone or on a webinar checking our emails on our phone, or having two windows open on my computer. There's actually no such thing as multitasking. All you're doing is rapidly switching from task to a task, which exhausts you and stresses you out. So like I'm on this call with you. I do have my phone over here but it's off. I'm not looking at it and as much as I can all the notifications on my computer are shut off. Good luck trying to email me while I'm busy because I won't see it. When I take a walk now with my dog. I don't bring my phone right now a lot of people podcast or music when they walk I just don't even I don't do that anymore. So being really cognizant of, of spilling mindfulness, doing one task at a time, giving it your full attention and then moving to the next task instead of trying to go from task to task. And I really like if it's possible when you finish a task. Can you get up and do a two or three or four or five minute walk? And can you get your body moving and can you get your brain looking at something? I'm very lucky where I work. I have beautiful windows and I could go for a walk outside pretty quickly if I want it to so it's like the perfect balance for your body and your mind to do your tasks and then get outside. Do your tasks and then do something that's not so important. Not so stressful. As a physician and the emergency room. I imagine you have a lot less control over your schedule. But really attending like to the patient that you're with and when someone tries to interrupt you say, Excuse me, I'm just going to finish and I'll get to you. Right so you're on one task, if possible at a time.
Michelle Tubman
Yeah. And it's almost impossible to be on just one task in the emergency department as well. Which I think is one of the things that contributes to burnout in my profession for sure. But I have rituals around my shifts. So there are things that I do I do a meditation before I start my shift so I am at least starting with a little bit of a clean slate in my mind. And I do go and hide in the bathroom for 10 minutes in the middle of my shift to do it again. You know if I hope none of my colleagues are listening, I don't know that I do. But I do. And I think it's really it's really important for me to have that balance throughout my shift as well. And
Kathleen Kelley
and I write the bathroom at family functions.
Michelle Tubman
Oh, I do too. Yeah, I know. I do too. It's my it's my thing. Yeah. I'm sure my family thinks I've got digestive issues, but it's not it's just my little escape from time to time. And I I totally hear what you're saying about the multitasking though, because when I look at good days and bad days, if I look at days outside of the hospital, right good days versus bad days, what seems to differentiate the two is how much I'm trying to accomplish in the span of that day. So if I'm setting like a realistic schedule for myself, I usually finish that day feeling pretty good. But if I plan a day where I say I'm just gonna have to get this dismiss done, and there's just no way you know that I can. That's when I start you know, to feel the stress. And I I describe myself as a recovering perfectionist, like I've kind of let go of the need to do things perfectly. But every once in a while, it creeps up right and that's also a source of stress, for me is thinking that I'm putting you know, imperfect podcasts or you know, you know, imperfect content on social media or whatever it is, you know, out there in the world. And so letting go of that has certainly been, you know, something that's helped with my stress as well.
Kathleen Kelley
I think even the awareness is amazing. Just saying, Oh, look at that. My brain is telling me this isn't perfect. Just the awareness creates a pause creates a space. If you take a deep breath during that space. You're at least giving yourself a pause and you know, a deep breath. When we do it properly. The diaphragm drops, the belly expands and it sends a signal to your brain. We're good. We have enough oxygen. It's okay. And then you can really really decide does this piece of content really needed tweak or is it fine? It's not Oh, I have to be perfect to fix this. It's pause. Yeah, I taken a look.
Michelle Tubman
So I think if I can summarize a little bit of the things that we've talked about today, what I'm hearing is that there's really two arms to stress that there's this stress that we actually do have control over in terms of putting boundaries in place in our lives. Not multitasking, looking at our list of to do's and making decisions around, you know which ones we can maybe defer or which ones we can maybe, you know, put off for another time, and to manage our lives and our schedules and our time and our energy in a way that's more in line with something that feels good with ourselves in our bodies. So that that there's that one piece, but then on the other side. There are circumstances that happen in our lives that we have no control over. And, you know, that requires maybe a little bit of a different approach and I think that's when they're really focusing on sleep and nutrition and taking care of ourselves at those that that most you know, fundamental human needs sort of level thing where that that's where that piece really, you know, comes into play.
Kathleen Kelley
Yeah, I think about the sleep and the nutrition and all that is putting money in the bank so that when there was an extra something, right, an extra task and extra problem the car breaks down. You have this little pool of money in your bank that you can reach for and say, Okay, I can handle this.
Michelle Tubman
Yeah. Well, I mean, that is so true, right? Because if I have a string of night shifts in the hospital, and I'm sleep deprived for the next two weeks my threshold for what puts me over the edge is way, way, way lower. Right. So you know, my husband will say something that will make me freak out. Whereas if he would say that, you know, on a normal week when I'm on a regular sleep schedule, it'll make me laughs like water of water off the duck's back. So my threshold for what I can handle so much different when I'm sleep deprived, and so I can't imagine what it would be like for people chronically sleep deprived.
Kathleen Kelley
Yeah, I mean, the literature suggests after one night of poor sleep, you're functioning like a person who's had two alcoholic beverages.
Michelle Tubman
That's crazy. Hey, yeah, just Yeah, easy. And what's sad about that is that becomes some people's new normal. Right? Yes.
Kathleen Kelley
And it it leads to usually poor nutrition and then a really deep inability to handle anything out of the schedule, out of the ordinary. You know, you think of a toddler having a tantrum. That's what the brain is going to do when it's chronically sleep deprived, chronically malnourished. Chronically overburdened, it's just going to have a tantrum. And you know, that's what we call burnout. Right? Exactly. sets you off. And there you are,
Michelle Tubman
and it's it's such a vicious cycle. And I see this a lot in my clients struggling with weight as well as that. A lot of us tend to be people pleasers. And of course, this isn't true of everybody who struggles with weight and it's also very true of many people who don't, but you know, those of us who are people pleasers and feeling like we have to live up to others expectations and having all of these what we're perceiving as external expectations put upon us. It leads to that. Being busy all the time feeling pressure to do things perfectly not getting the sleep and then eating and then it just keeps, it just keeps going on and on and on. And I think what we're trying to say, here today is that, you know, the answer isn't trying to find more time, right? The answer isn't trying to manage other people's expectations. It's about like looking inwards, and looking at where you can put your boundaries and where you can prioritize your own sleep and health and wellness. And also like what you said, like finding what actually works for you, right? Because there are some days where a walk is exactly what I need. There are other days when doing yoga is what I need. And there are other days when having a nap you know is what I need. Right? And it's taken me some time to figure out what it is my body, you know, actually actually needs during different times of stress.
Kathleen Kelley
I like to I like to tell my clients and therapists I talked to you have so much more control than you think. Yeah. When we were going through the pandemic we felt so like I felt like the rug got pulled out from under me, what is this? What's happening to our society? And really now I think it's about let's look, let me put the locus of control back at me. I have so much more control of how I think and feel than I realized.
Michelle Tubman
Yeah, well, it's funny, they actually have done studies now throughout the pandemic of people who have gained COVID weight versus people who haven't over the course of the pandemic, and and it really did come down to this sense of control. So some people felt that they had totally lost control that all of their usual social support systems had been taken away, not being able to go to restaurants, lots of uncertainty in terms of what was going to happen next. Those were the type of people that ended up eating to have a sense of control over something. Then there were other people who looked at this as like, Well, okay, now all of a sudden, I have much more time because my social responsibilities aren't the same as they were before. Let's just take a look at how I can you know, structure my life a little bit differently. They felt like they had more control, and those people either didn't gain weight or sometimes even lost weights, as well. And really, this was all just about perspective. Right? Some people were focusing on you know what had been taken away and others were focusing on. Well, look, here are the opportunities that I have now. So I think when it comes to stress management, our perspective of what's what the circumstances are in our lives is super important, because we can focus on all of these things that feel out of our control, or we could look for the places where we can actually say, You know what, maybe this isn't working for me and how can I do it a little bit differently.
Kathleen Kelley
Yeah, 100% Yeah. Love it.
Michelle Tubman
All right. I just want to touch on one more topic before we close off for today, Kathleen, and we've mentioned meditation a few times, and it's certainly an important part of my life. It's part of my morning routine to do a little bit of mindfulness meditation. And I noticed that there's a big difference in how I feel throughout the rest of my day on days I do it versus days I don't and also when I'm in a good like a stretch when I'm doing it consistently every day. It's much easier for me to kind of step back when I feel like I'm getting you know swept swept away in the tasks of the day to recollect myself. And so I know we've mentioned you know, find what works for you. But generally speaking, is there a role for meditation and stress management?
Kathleen Kelley
Well, meditation depending on the study you read, affects every single part of the brain. Depends on how they do the study. But long term studies are going to show an increase in cortical thickness and an expansion of the hippocampus, which is our memory area, and then some studies actually show that Magdala shrinking which is that sight, that place of our anxiety kind of starts in the amygdala. And the thing I hear most is I can't meditate. I can't sit still. I can't do it. 100% Every brain can meditate. It's just a matter of finding the one that works for you. There's really no literature that says which one is better. There just happens to be the most literature on mindfulness based stress reduction from the Kabat school, because he's done the most research, but that doesn't mean it's the best one. It's a good one. It just happens to have a lot of support for me, I soon I do kind of meditation called neuraosculpting and neural sculpting. We try and involve the whole brain. So right and left. And my experience prior to that was meditation, there was a lot of visualization. Imagine yourself on a beach and things like that and being up just a teeny tiny bit type A my left brain always felt what I tell people is my left brain felt left out. Right, I'd be picturing a beach and then over here, I'd be like, I gotta pick up bread. The kids forgot their shoes, right, right. So in neural sculpting we go back and forth. We say think about the rain, our ai n rain. What color are your shoes, sh o e s? We go back and forth. So brings the whole brain on board. So for me, I found that that was the kind of meditation that I would do on my own. Right. I didn't need a class. I didn't need a teacher. I you know, I didn't. I don't usually use a CD but sometimes when I'm having a really hard time attending, my teacher has CDs that I have now put on my phone, right who has CDs anymore. So what that does what you're saying what you're describing is that the meditation, again, puts a deposit in the bank so that when you start feeling pulled out of your task pulled out of your day, you can take a breath center yourself, calm your brain and get back on track. And that's all it's doing for you. Right, it's giving you a little space and control over the thoughts that could run wild and take your day over. You could go down the rabbit hole of oh my goodness, I'm behind this patient needs that. I'm never going to get this done. When am I going to do like you could go down that rabbit hole. Yeah, you take your breath. you center yourself. You bring yourself back because you meditated in the morning and you put a little deposit in the bank and you don't have to like the other thing I tell people is there's nothing magical about sitting cross legged on a fancy cushion. Right? Sure that hurts your knees, sit in a chair. If you prefer to lie down and the reason people say not to meditate lying down as many people fall asleep. Which my teacher believes you're doing the work anyway.
Michelle Tubman
Yeah, you probably are. Yeah. You
Kathleen Kelley
know, if you fall asleep during my meditation class, I consider it a huge compliment.
Michelle Tubman
Fair enough. Fair enough.
Kathleen Kelley
Yeah, you could walk like you could walk and meditate. You know, you could breeze to press work for meditation. There's so many times it's really not a matter of I can't it's a matter of, you know, find what speaks to you find what you're gonna do. Consistently, right? You know, for me, like I'm not a runner. I hate running. Running hurts. I don't like it. But I see the value in cardio. I see the value and exercise right? The find something that I loved. Right I ride a peloton. Is that better than running? Is it worse than running? It's better for me than running because I do
Michelle Tubman
it. Yes. So for you, you
Kathleen Kelley
have your like routine. Your meditation routine. Is it better than mine? It's better for you.
Michelle Tubman
Right? You do it. Right. Exactly. And I think that is just one more place where we have to step back and stop thinking about what's the perfect way to do this. What's the right way to do this? What way should I be doing this and just, you know, really again, looking inward and committing to doing what you know, works for you. And I think like the commitment piece is important as well. Because when I talk to women, most women are able to tell me what they need. They're able to tell me like moving my body going for a walk that settles my mind that makes me feel better. That gives me energy, but I don't have any time for stuff like that. Right and like there's always the butt in the excuse that comes afterwards. And I like to challenge people to you know, do some journaling, or at least just some reflection on how your days look different. When you do schedule a little bit of time to do these things that you know you need to do for yourself. Look at how much better you feel and perform and show up for your family and your kids and your friends. When you get a good night's sleep. Like you know, pay attention to how things look different when you're taking care of yourself versus when you aren't. And then you know, tell me do you think you can find time now? Right because I and again it's it's shifting from feeling like we have to be there for everybody else all the time to understanding like deeply understanding that we do show up better for others if we show up for ourselves first and I think that's what the root of stress management is really.
Kathleen Kelley
I really liked that you said a little bit of time. Right? So all your clients that say Oh, I know if I take a walk and take a bath and read some fiction and make a healthy meal those things make me feel better, but I don't have time. Okay, in one. Yeah. Just pick one. Yeah, commit to five minutes. And once you start to feel the effects, the positive effects, you'll naturally gravitate towards doing more of what feels good, exactly less
Michelle Tubman
of what feels bad. Yeah. Yeah. And I think that is actually a point worth emphasizing is that if we if we use you know, running or meditation as an example, if it's not something you're routinely doing as part of your day, you're only going to make your stress levels higher. If you put the expectation that you're gonna go, you know, sit on your mat for an hour, or go for a run for an hour. Right. And I think a lot of us, myself included, we get caught up in this well, if I can't go for an hour like I might as well not do it at all like five minutes is just pointless. And that is absolutely not true. I feel I feel just as good with five minutes on my mat than I do with 20. Right. And so it really is managing your expectations and being realistic with with yourself as well and just starting somewhere.
Kathleen Kelley
I had a great experience with my yoga teacher one time we were in the middle of a training and he only had 20 minutes every morning for his practice. And that was enough. Like this is my this is my 20 minutes I'm doing my 20 minutes out see at eight, okay. And I thought oh, he's, you know, he's the teacher he must be practicing three hours a day and I'm sure there was a time and a life in his life that he did. But at that moment, he made 20 minutes enough so five minutes of a walk. Andrew Weil has a breath activity that he recommends. It's you do it five, five rounds. takes about two and a half minutes. He says do it twice today. You'll feel better. Yeah,
Michelle Tubman
it's not a lot not a lot. No, no, it's not right. And your yoga teacher is probably perfectly present in those 20 minutes doing only his yoga practice and nothing else. So it's a huge deposit in his bank account. More than what you would think 20 minutes could give you. Yeah, yeah. Love it. Love it, Kathleen. All right. Thank you so much for talking with me about stress today. I learned a lot. Do you have any last words of wisdom that you want to share before we we sign off?
Kathleen Kelley
I think just reminding yourself how much power you have over your day and your life and your feelings and you don't have to do it perfect. You just have to do what feels best for you. And if what you like is not the same as what your friends like or your spouse or whatever. So what
Michelle Tubman
So what So what? So what, that is a good phrase. I'm gonna hold on to that one for a little while. So alright, thank you so much Kathleen. And if people want to learn more about you or work with you, where can they find you?
Kathleen Kelley
They can find me at my website which is radiate from within that calm and they can find me on Instagram. Same radiate from within. And you can schedule a time with me you can schedule a discovery call. I provide one to one coaching, private coaching over zoom. Yeah,
Michelle Tubman
well, that's where I am. I love it. And we'll put all of that information in the show notes for you as well. Thank you. Perfect. Thanks, Kathleen.
Kathleen Kelley
Good luck.
